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Colin Devroe

Reverse Engineer. Blogger.

What should a conference look like in 2017?

Karla Porter:

I find myself searching for the value of spending a boatload of money and travel time to attend conferences. Not just for myself, but for you too. After all, that could be vacation time and money.

If you read my blog you already know that I see value in attending events. I write about it and mention it time and time again.

Karla values events too. I mean, she helps organize them! You need to stick with her piece all the way to the end to understand where she’s coming from and that what she’s ultimately asking is this: if so much of the value in attending events is in everything that happens around the event (conversations, networking) then how can we bring that value back into the event format itself?

In 2007 when I attended my first *Camp style event (or, unconference) in San Francisco I learned that unconferences give the attendees the power to steer the discussions and that the organizers do not get to set what topics are important. Whatever is important on those days and for those people gets discussed. It is great. The attendees feel like they’ve contributed and that they’ve gotten something they wanted out of the event. You can read more about BarCamp on Wikipedia.

Unconferences can be, well, uncomfortable for some. Especially introverts. Because people aren’t always willing to stand up and suggest topics. Or, even write them on the wall. And many technology conferences have people that are a little more reserved that attend them. However, in 2013 when I attended Greenville Grok I learned about 10/20s (go to that post to read more about those). These gently motivated the audience to randomly split into smaller groups. This helps a lot. Then the smaller groups can bring that value back to the whole. Greenville Grok also had presentations, competitions, and activities associated to the multiple-days long event.

I believe my first suggestion to Karla would be; find a comfortable way to give the attendees more power to steer the bulk of the discussions. This will help them to leave empowered and feel as though they’ve contributed to the event and were not just spectators. They will feel also like they came away from the event with information that was tailored to them.

My next suggestion would be to focus on putting together a killer Keynote presentation. One per-day for a conference is typical. A great Keynote presentation will help set the mood for the entire conference, give people motivation to go back to their work lives and do something radically different, to aspire to do better or bigger things, or gain perspective that they don’t have it all that bad. I’ve seen Keynote presentations by severely infirm person’s that made a huge impact despite their circumstances, by driven people that have helped tackle incredibly tough challenges, and stories of failure that showed it was OK to not always get it right. Getting a good Keynote speaker with a great topic is worth the effort and it should start the day not end it.

I would also suggest to vary the format wildly throughout the day. Speaker, break, speaker, break. No good. One runs into another or you end up wanting to skip one because you don’t like the title of the presentation. So vary the format instead. A few weeks ago when I attended SAIL there was a survey given to the entire audience on the first day. On the second day the survey results had already been tabulated and we discussed the results as a group. It helped to break up the day.

I would have two main goals regarding the varied format; keep the audience from feeling like they are sitting in one place for too long (no longer than 20 minutes all day) and that the audience be involved as much as possible. Here is what I think a schedule could look like

  • Short, short, short introduction that mentions sponsors and the hashtag for the conference
  • Keynote (15 minutes) w/ Q&A (20 minutes)
  • short in-seat break while attendees fill out a survey online or paper (saves some on the tabulation headaches)
  • short video (5 minutes) w/ comments from audience (alternatively, if no video is available, play an applicable and short TED presentation)
  • break for refreshments (5 minutes) w/ a chance to set up the 10/20s (attendees choose numbers out of hats)
  • do the 10/20s (60 minutes)
  • have lunch (ask attendees to write questions of the audience on sticky notes and write them on wall)
  • discuss the 10/20s
  • have a practical presentation
  • a short workshop on something practical (example, creating an editorial calendar for their web site or business or personal brand)
  • break for refreshments (5 minutes)
  • review survey results and discuss as a group
  • A demo/presentation of an applicable product, perhaps a sponsor (5 minutes)
  • Q&A based on sticky notes with attendees answering the questions

Karla is right. Most of the value comes from the attendees and networking not the conference. I like to think of it more as an energy exchange than a knowledge exchange. So the way you can bring that value back into the main conference format is to turn it inside out and have the attendees be part of the entire thing.

The new MacBook Pro with Touchbar

Sarah Parmenter:

By the time 2016 rolled around, I was overdue an upgrade and I thought the new MacBook Pro’s were enough of an upgrade to warrant a new purchase. After all, it had been 4 years. A lifetime in hardware you use every day.

I was in the exact same boat as Sarah. I had been using a mid-2012 13″ MacBook Pro with Retina display every day for 4 years. (There was about a month where I tried a Surface Book with Performance Base and Windows 10 that I still have yet to write up. Short version: Apple should be very worried about losing their creative and developer community though it does not seem like they are.) Unlike Sarah I loved my computer up until the day I swapped it out for this new computer. It was easily the best laptop I had ever owned from Apple. I simply needed to upgrade for hard drive space and processor speed.

This new MacBook Pro with Touchbar is an OK machine. I would echo many of her thoughts. I’d also add:

  • USB-C seems both frustrating and clearly the future. This time in the middle is annoying but I’ll wait 12 more months before I complain.
  • The Touchbar is very cool in my experience so far but I almost never use the laptop keyboard for long periods.
  • Battery life for me is a non-issue. I’m connected to power most of the time and when I travel I don’t bring my laptop anymore. My phone suffices.
  • Having the extra hard drive space is crucial for me at this point. In fact, if Apple would make a 13″ laptop with multiple terabytes in it I’d buy it.

Reading this you’ll likely think I should have just purchased an iMac. And while I could likely get away with an iMac I like having a portable workstation to attend events, take on client meetings occasionally, and take home to work when it is snowing.

I’m happy I upgraded and I likely won’t have to think about a new computer until another 3 or 4 years pass. But, again like Sarah, I’m not incredibly impressed with this machine as I was with the 13″ MBP.

A few asides:

  • Innovation in the laptop market is likely over. The Touchbar is cool but I think the iPad is more the future of mobile computing. As components shrink and the cloud plays a larger part in both processing and storage I believe that true portables will be iPads. Which means that iPads should start docking to displays soon and run macOS. Apple and the community disagree with me on this but clearly Microsoft does not.
  • If Microsoft shipped an AR-based platform wherein I have a phone in my pocket and glasses on my phase (driven by the phone and Windows 10) I’d be the first in line for something like that to replace my laptop. Sounds insane but let me remind you that two people will be orbiting the moon next year and Stephen Hawking will likely be in orbit of the Earth.

 

 

Attending Small Agency Idea Lab (SAIL) in Walt Disney World, Florida

Last week I attended SAIL, Second Wind’s Small Agency Idea Lab, at the Boardwalk Resort in Walt Disney World, Florida. This is the first marketing and advertising agency event that I’ve been to (usually attending technology or internet related events) and I really enjoyed myself and learned a lot.

SAIL is pitched as a lab and at times it really felt like one. The attendees were engaged, asked questions, provided answers, and steered the conversations and presentations as much as the presenters did.

Being that I was representing Condron Media for this event I did my best to jot down a myriad of notes and bring back what I thought was applicable for our business. I figured I’d take a moment during this week’s Homebrew Website Club to share a few of those notes so that perhaps you can benefit too.

  • “the only thing to continue will be the pace of change” – Brian Olson of inQuest said this during his presentation and it reverberated through the entirety of the two-day event. Most business sectors have already, or are in the process of, coming to grips with this fact already – change, or die. My boss, Phil Condron, laid that out great during our rebrand.
  • Profit sharing as a strategy – This is nothing new, in any industry, but the way Ross Toohey of 2e Creative and his CFO created a program that helps their team do their best work and service the customer better was inspiring.
  • workamajig – I’ve been online since 1994 and I had never heard of workamajig before I attended SAIL. I’ve used tons of project management software so I plan on looking into it and seeing if it may be right for our team or not.
  • Using IP to generate revenue – I tell this same concept to every single company I advise. I call it “sawdust”. Which I believe was inspired by Jason Fried in 2009. Turn your sawdust into revenue. Sharon Toerek ran a great presentation to show the myriad of ways that creative agencies can do this.

There were many other takeaways from SAIL that I plan on expounding on in future posts.

I get asked sometimes if the fees associated with these types of events are worth it. Yes. Without question. I am a strong advocate of attending as many events as you possible can. If you only come away with one tool, one contact, one new idea, one new process – nearly any price tag is worth it.

Plus, in this case, I managed to get a little bit of sun in March.

Joining Condron Media

I see huge opportunity in digital marketing over the next decade.

We’re now reaching the point where billions of people are using social platforms to share information every single day, where the vast majority of a person’s attention is on an internet-based platform rather than a broadcast one, and, where the tools are in-place to allow businesses to measure where every dollar is spent.

Marketing wasn’t always transparent. It was nearly impossible to know exactly how well, or how poorly, a particular campaign was working. Billboards, print, radio, and TV are incredibly difficult to measure – and impossible to measure accurately. As internet marketing has matured – from banner ads to boosted posts and stickers and filters – it has actually gotten more transparent. Marketing campaigns can be laser focused to reach only the people and business that you want to see your message. Each impression can be measured and tracked to be certain how the campaign is working. And, the campaign can be adjusted ad nauseam to ensure no impressions are wasted. It is an incredible time to invest in digital marketing.

This is why I’ve decided to join Condron Media as Senior Vice President.

How did I get here? By fooling around and applying the lessons I learned as practical business strategies.

When I was 14 fooling around with HTML in my bedroom I never thought it would turn into a career. It did. And I helped build some of the most trafficked and award-winning web sites of the early 2000s.

When I was 18 and decided to jump from IT to programming for the web I never thought it would lead me to build something that would be used by thousands of people. I did that several times. In fact, a few of the projects I worked on ranked very highly in Alexa ratings with millions of impressions daily.

When I was 22 and lost my job due to the September 11th attacks I never thought that I’d be able to start my own business using my experience to help other companies. I did and immediately found a client that would catapult my career.

When I was 27 and serving on the board of a technology company I never thought I’d be able to use that experience to help dozens of entrepreneurs to get their start. I’ve been super happy to have helped many and am looking forward to continuing that for the rest of my life.

And, since joining Twitter in 2006 and Facebook in 2007, I never thought that messing around with social networks would give me the skills I needed to help the next wave of marketing trends where hundreds of millions of dollars are spent annually – but I firmly believe that is exactly the doorstep I’m on right now. And I’m looking forward to seeing what the next few steps look like.

If you would like to up your marketing game give us a call.

Attending January’s NEPA.js meet up

Aaron Rosenberg NEPA.js

Photo: Aaron Rosenberg presenting an intro to Node.js.

January’s NEPA.js meet up, the second monthly meet up for this group, was held on Tuesday evening at the Scranton Enterprise Center. This group, though only a few months old, is starting to get its legs underneath it and it is really great to see the community building.

The meet up’s discussion was centered around an introduction to Node.js and it was extremely well presented by Aaron Rosenberg. Aaron did an excellent job explaining the project’s raison d’être, history, and growth. One bit I especially liked was him showing how the browser’s JavaScript engine processed requests using Loupe. All-in-all an excellent introduction. (Link to presentation slides forthcoming. Check back here.)

Following Aaron’s presentation was Mark Keith showing some real live coding of a simple Node app using Express, a framework for building Node web apps, which quickly devolved slightly into discussions on scope, globals, “this“, etc. which was all good because the attendees were steering the conversation.

After the two hour meet up we made our way through the parking lot to Ale Mary’s for a beer or two. I’m looking forward to February’s meet up.

Thanks goes to Aaron and Mark for putting together the presentations and to tecBRIDGE for the pizza.

Attending the Wilkes-Barre Programming meetup

Osterhout Free Public Library

On Saturday I braved the frigid temperatures and attended a Wilkes-Barre Programming meetup at the Osterhout Free Library in downtown Wilkes-Barre.

I arrived a few minutes late – it was Saturday so of course I had to make myself some breakfast, enjoy my coffee, watch a little YouTube prior to getting out in the elements – and then I couldn’t find the room the meetup was in at the library. Once I found the group there was already 6 attendees and they were over an hour into their programming.

One of the attendees proposed a problem to be solved; convert a number into a Roman numeral using Python. I have little-to-no Python experience, and unfortunately not much was discussed at this meetup regarding the language (since it wasn’t for beginners) but I decided to try my hand at solving this problem in JavaScript. Here is my attempt (though incomplete). It can do the thousands and hundreds. I’d need a little more time to do the tens and singles but I ran out of time at the group.

I was happy to see this small group meeting in Wilkes-Barre. Some of the attendees mentioned they’d be visiting the #nepaJS meetup happening on Tuesday, which would be great. We need a lot more of these smaller groups and we need them all to be connected to the larger NEPA Tech group. In larger metropolitan areas these smaller groups would be hundreds strong and so consolidation wouldn’t be needed. We don’t have that here. So we need as much effort to be consolidated as possible. These small groups are where skills are honed, where partnerships and companies can be formed, where careers are forged. If you are someone that works in technology please consider joining one of these smaller groups. Even if you aren’t into programming. As they grow I’m sure they will end up fragmenting into more specific groups for the areas you’re interested in. The more support the better.

Independent microblogging

Manton Reece re: Medium’s recent announcement that they are laying off 1/3rd of their team:

The message is clear. The only web site that you can trust to last and have your interests at heart is the web site with your name on it.

He’s right of course. He has said it a million times. So have I. Like right here. And so have many others.

Manton, by the way, is currently Kickstarting a book and service about independent microblogging. I told you about the service already. Go back his project even though it is very well funded already. This is important stuff.

Being on the “Ask the Web Marketing Experts” panel

Yesterday I was privileged to represent Condron & Cosgrove (more on this in January) at the NEPA Defense Transition Partnership panel discussion, through the Scranton Small Business Development Center, called Ask the Web Marketing Experts. I was flanked by other experts in the area including Jack Reager of Black Out Design, Gerard Durling of Coal Creative, and Ben Giordano of Freshy Sites.

img_3876

Left to right: Jack, Gerard, myself, Ben.

The panel discussion lasted a few hours and ranged topics from the elements of an effective web site to how to find your voice with social media for your business. It was a great discussion and it was recorded. If the video is made public I’ll be sure to share it.

There were a few overarching takeaways from the panel. Here’s mine; Don’t write-off a new social platform simply because you do not use it or understand it. Don’t get stuck using the same marketing techniques for your business year-after-year. Just because you did one thing one year, doesn’t mean it isn’t worth trying something different the next.

Every social network that we use today was, at one point, written off by those that didn’t think they’d ever make a difference. Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, Pinterest – all of these got their fair share of shrugged shoulders in the beginning. Don’t be that person. Be willing to move and adjust as the market does. You’ll be able to do better marketing for your business.

E15: Bots, Windows 10 Surface Book review, Twitter Head of Product

Last weekend Danny and I sat down and discussed our current experience with bots, the progress I’ve made on my still forthcoming Windows 10 and Surface Book review and also Twitter’s new Head of Product hire.

Links:

Download MP3

Tweeting for 10 years

Last week Jeremy Keith reminded me, yet again, of an anniversary I share with him. That is, we’ve now both been tweeting for 10 years. Here is my first tweet.

Jeremy beat me by 6 days and only 5,000 tweets. Can you believe that back then only 5,000 tweets were sent in 6 days? These days I’d guess that 5,000 tweets happen a few thousand times per second. And tomorrow, on Election Day, you can guarantee millions of tweets per second.

Jeremy reflects on the early days and also on some of the things that changed over time. Please, please go read his post. But I’ll expound slightly on what he’s written.

Most notably this bit:

The most obvious sign of change was the way that Twitter started treating third-party developers. Where they previously used to encourage and even promote third-party apps, the company began to crack down on anything that didn’t originate from Twitter itself. That change reflected the results of an internal struggle between the people at Twitter who wanted it to become an open protocol (like email), and those who wanted it to become a media company (like Yahoo). The media camp won.

If you listened to audio bit E8, wherein Danny and I chat about Twitter, one of my suggestions for Twitter is to go back to this. To go back to supporting third-party development. We chatted about the whacky uses of Twitter (like drawbridges, plants that need watering, etc.) but there are very, very practical uses too.

But now, just a few weeks later, I do not feel that would be enough to save Twitter. And I do mean save it. It is dying. It will go away. I do not see anyone coming in to rescue it at this point. In fact, if someone does step up to the plate to try to rescue it, it may be the wrong entity to do so and it may get worse.

Jeremy has a leg up on me that I do not have. He posts his “tweets” first at his site and syndicates to Twitter. Well, I do too. However, I don’t only post to my site. I tweet. A lot. It is a hard habit for me to break. I love tweeting during sporting events. I love even more tweeting during tech events like Apple’s Media and WWDC events or Microsoft’s Build events or rocket launches. In context they are fun, sometimes funny, sometimes informative to follow those conversations happening on Twitter. If I published those particular notes to my site first they’d be in a silo of sorts and out of context. Someone stumbling upon them would have no idea what I was talking about. So do I just not write those tweets any more?

Unlike Jeremy I will be sad if Twitter goes away. It has been part of my life for 10 years and I think it is the best social network we have going. But, like Jeremy, I’ll keep posting here. Because my site will be around for as long as possible.

Now I just need to break the habit of posting tweets to Twitter.

Eleven and six and twenty

Thanks to Jeremy for remarking how he forgot his blog’s 15th anniversary (congrats Jeremy!) it reminded me to check and, well, I missed my blog’s anniversary by nearly the same number of days as he did.

On Saturday October 1 this blog, my personal blog on my own domain name but not my first ever personal blog, turned 11 years old. This was the first post.

My blogging journey did not begin with this site. It started about 10 years before that. Prior to owning cdevroe.com – which was a gift from Josue Salazar (Thanks again Josue) – I had personal sites on Tripod (circa 2002), on a domain called colinspage.com (circa 2003 though it began in 1998 or 1999), I blogged on theubergeeks.net (circa 2003) and even had another blog in between that I wrote in ASP myself. My best guess is that I began blogging long before it was called blogging somewhere around 1995 when I was working at a computer store near my parent’s house.

In addition to my own personal online journal at the time we began plugging away on TheHutt.net (circa 1999) – which I helped develop alongside friends Chris Coleman and Chris Kuruts. We used the site to mark the upcoming Star Wars prequels. What a mistake! (The films, not our site.)

Six years ago I started curating The Watercolor Gallery – a site I take great pride in. That site recently had an anniversary as well that I failed to mark. I’ve been working on a brand-new version of the site too.

So I’ve been blogging for somewhere around 20 years. And my personal blog has taken many forms before finally settling here on cdevroe.com. And, as I sit here writing this post with nearly 20 years of writing on the web under my belt I am incredibly excited to continue writing on my blog.

Thanks to Jeremy for both the reminder and the constant inspiration from his blog.

Tips for new drone owners

After a few weeks of trial and error, (lots, and lots of error) video tutorial binging, manual devouring, and literally swimming for and losing my first UAV, I thought it might be good to jot down some tips for new drone owners.

Drone on ground

So here they are, in no order, but all worth considering:

  • Fly over shallow water – If you are going to fly over water, fly over shallow enough water that you’ll be able to rescue your UAV should it take a dip. I was able to rescue my drone in 8 feet of water, but I wasn’t able to rescue it in 30 feet of water. Or, buy something like this.
  • Keep and read the manual that comes with your craft – You may not understand the lingo the first time you read it. But after a few weeks you’ll know what yaw, headless mode, pitch, m/s, and many other terms mean and this way you’ll understand the manual more each time you review it.
  • Search for your model on YouTube and watch other people fly – Some people have taken the time to record great tutorials on flying your particular model and you’ll be very glad they did. You’ll learn a lot by watching other people fly.
  • Fly in a huge, huge open area if you can find it – The bigger and flatter the area the more you can safely explore and make mistakes. You can make two, three, four or more flight corrections in a large area and you won’t hurt yourself, your craft, or any property.
  • Practice, practice, practice – Do the same exact maneuver over and over and over. When it comes time to use that skill your brain will just do it. Here is an example… watch this video. It is boring. Practice can be boring.  It is OK. It is worth the effort.
  • Immediately buy more flight time – If you’ve recently purchased a craft and only have access to the battery that comes with it… find some batteries for your craft on Amazon or eBay and buy them right now.
  • Buy replacement parts before you need them – If your craft didn’t come with replacement blades, legs, etc. just go on eBay right now and buy some. You may never need them but they are so inexpensive it is worth having them around. And you’ll want them to be handy when you need them.
  • Controllers need power too – Don’t forget to keep back up controller batteries with you at all times. Nothing worse than a full craft battery and drained controller batteries.
  • Flying in the morning is easier – Wind is generally down in the early morning hours. So if you want to fly over a body of water for the first time, morning is the best time to do it.
  • If there is a steady wind, fly into it, not with it – By flying into the wind you can safely return your craft by simply guiding it rather than fighting it. Also good when your battery is getting low.

I’m sure I’ll be adding to this list over time. If I do, I’ll make a note of the newer tips.

While I have you reading this, here are some general tips for shooting video with your UAV if you’re into that sort of thing.

  • High flying videos are cool, but so are low flying ones – Don’t concentrate solely on getting the highest footage that you can. Low and slow can be just as dramatic.
  • Use the sun to your advantage – Magic hour is great for video too. Face away from the sun to have the best naturally lit subjects… face into the sun to get that JJ Abrams lens flare.
  • Fly the same route more than once – Trying to capture a scene? Do the same route more than once to ensure you got the shot you want.
  • Record a bit more than you need – Don’t try to “edit in the camera”. You can edit the footage later. Bookend what you think you need with 10 seconds of padding.
  • Slow, smooth – It is very rare that you need really fast video. Slow and smooth wins the day. So keep the corrections to a minimum.
  • It isn’t just about the gear – Photography has a saying “the best camera is the one you have with you”. Same goes for video. Gear is important, but it isn’t as important as your creativity and diligence to get what you want.

Happy flying!

Wirelessly transfer files from a GoPro using any computer without software

(Skip to the bottom of this post if you just want to know how to connect to your GoPro using an internet browser.)

As I mentioned my GoPro Hero3+ Silver Edition has been giving me issues lately.

It started 6 months ago as an iOS app connectivity issue. I would connect to the ad-hoc network that the GoPro Hero3+ creates, open the iOS app, and attempt to transfer the files to my phone but it would only work about 10% of the time.

I figured out how to deal with this issue by first attempting to control the GoPro using the app before attempting to transfer the photos and video off of it. I have no idea why, but this worked for a while. But then even this “hack” stopped working about a month ago.

For these times I would connect my GoPro to my Mac via USB and transfer the files. But recently this has stopped working too. The GoPro doesn’t mount to the Mac. And in Image Capture or Photos for OS X you can only see the GoPro being connected for a few seconds before it disconnects, reconnects, disconnects, repeat repeat repeat. Maddening. It isn’t the cable. Is isn’t the USB port. (I’ve managed to rule these out.)

After searching online for a bit I see a lot of people having similar issues with their GoPro cameras after they’ve had them for a little while. Some ship with these issues.

I do not have a micro USB chip reader so I have no way to get larger files off of the GoPro with all of these crazy issues. Smaller files can still be transferred using the iOS application thankfully.

On Wednesday I attached my GoPro to my kayak and paddled around for a while with the camera pointed under water. Typically I try to stop and start the video recording every few minutes because I know I can only transfer smaller files to my phone. But I just let it run for a while.

Today I cannot transfer that file to my phone (using the app) or computer (using USB). And I don’t have a card reader. So what other option do I have?

It turns out that GoPro Hero 3+ comes with a small web server on it that you can connect to, browse the files, or even see live video from the device. I had no idea this was an option. It wasn’t until I stumbled across a few poorly recorded YouTube videos that I saw it. I’ve read the manual that came with my GoPro at least twice and I don’t think it is mentioned in there either. Just to be sure, I checked the manual again while writing this post. I do not see it mentioned.

Here is how you connect to your GoPro using a web browser.

1. Turn on your GoPro.
2. Turn on Wi-fi into “app” mode. (if you’re unsure how to do this, see your manual)
3. Connect your computer to the ad-hoc wireless network that the GoPro creates.
4. Open your web browser, point it to http://10.5.5.9:8080 (if this IP address does not work, see what the IP address of your “router” or “Gateway” is when connected to the GoPro. On Windows you can run “ipconfig” using CMD.exe and on Mac you can go to System Preferences > Network > Advanced > TCP/IP)
5. If you did it right, you’ll see this.

GoPro web server
It isn’t fancy. But it gets the job done.

I still wasn’t able to download the 2.1GB video file. It halts at around 1.47GB and just sits there. I think my GoPro is telling me it is time to be retired. Sad GoPro. However, I tried transferring a few other smaller files and it worked very smoothly. So perhaps this is easier than using the iOS app or even mounting it via USB. Who needs cables?

I’m really happy I found this feature.

My interview on The Way Station

On App.net I asked if anyone had a podcast that I could be a guest on. And, wouldn’t you know it Noah Read had one and graciously invited me to be a guest on The Way Station.

We had a nice, relaxed, geeky chat about my career, about Plain and Barley, and a bit about Star Wars of course. I recommend giving it a listen.